Although this is an ancient practice, at least as far back as St Polycarp of Smyrna (circa AD 160), it begs the question:
"is this the right thing to do?" Is this what Jesus would do?
Non-Orthodox Christians, who do not particularly venerate the saints, would argue : "You don't need the saints, just go straight to Jesus!" They quote as proof text 1 Timothy 2:5- "there is one G
od and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus"So what should we make of this?
Who's right and who's wrong?
Where do we go from here?
Who's right and who's wrong?
Where do we go from here?
It would appear from 1Timothy that the argument is pretty much black/white.... isn't it?
BUT hang on........ "WWJD?"
This got me thinking:
"Can the Orthodox justify their practice of consultation with the Saints using 'WWJD' principles?"
Before I look at 'WWJD' (or more precisely, 'what DID Jesus do') with regard to question of "should the Orthodox consult with the saints in their spiritual life?", I want to develop my argument a little further with regard to "who and what is a saint?" .Who are the Saints?
How are we to understand the Saints? How are they understood in scripture? What are they up to after their earthly life has ended? These are all important questions that need to be understood before we can address the matter of calling on them for intercession.Most people will be aware that Orthodox Christians venerate, BUT do not worship, the saints (the righteous dead)- (for a discussion of this distinction please see my previous post Veneration vs Worship: is there a difference? )
Orthodox Christians (like many traditional Trinitarian Christians) routinely consult the saints, call upon them as living members of the Church for intercession and help. They celebrate their lives and (more importantly) their deaths (i.e. their "birthday" into the Heavenly Kingdom). Orthodox Christians do this because they have a firm conviction that the righteous dead, having been with Christ before their deaths (i.e. during their life on earth (or at least with God as He had revealed Himself, in the case of the Old Testament saints)), remain alive in Christ after their earthly 'death', being more alive spiritually than before. They believe the saints are always before the throne of the living God, with Christ Jesus, the Son of God, seated at the right hand of God the Father in all His full Glory (Col 3:1); and the saints are being continually refreshed by His presence (c.f. Acts 3:19)
We read time and time again, that God is the God of the the living and not of the the dead:
"I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." Matthew 22:32;
"He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.” Mark 12:27;
"For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”Luke 20:38.
"He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.” Mark 12:27;
"For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him.”Luke 20:38.
Christ Himself said that: “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." John 11:25. Thus the saints-- whether Old Testament (such as the Prophet Isaiah, King David, the Patriarch Abraham etc.) or New Testament (such the Apostle Paul, Apostle Peter, St Luke the Evangelist, St Phoebe the Deaconess etc.)-- having believed in God (in Old Testament times) and in Jesus (during His time in the flesh c.f. John 1:14) whilst on this earth, are now truly alive in Him even after their departure from this life. They remain just as much a part of the "Church, the Body of Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:27), in their 'death' as they did during their (earthly) life.
Saint Paul tells us clearly that "Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living." Romans 14:9. So the message remains consistent:
If you were alive in Christ before your death,
you continue to be alive in Christ even
after your physical death!
[Permit me a small digression. This reminds me of an Orthodox monastic saying I heard Fr Thomas Hopko quote : "In the Christian life, we must die before we die, so that when we die we do not die!" The saints are those who died to themselves (i.e. suppressed their ego for Christ's sake) and lived 'in Christ' whilst on earth. Like St John the Forerunner and Baptist, the saints lived an 'ego-denying' life for Christ's sake: "He must increase, but I must decrease" John 3:30. St Paul said the same to his flock: "For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God" Col 3:3. St Paul is not equivocal about this point: "it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20
Thus the saints, having "died before they died", live now in Christ after their death! ]
Regarding death of the body and life in Christ, Jesus talked about a distinction between physical death and death of the soul or spirit:
The 1st death is death of the body; death as understood by the world-- by the world of science, biology and forensic pathology. The 1st death is the stench of the decaying Lazarus 4 days in the tomb (John 11:39). But this is NOT the death to fear. The 1st death cannot hurt the righteous in God. The 1st death is not the final word. It may be inevitable for all, but for the righteous saints of God, it is their crowning glory! It will be when they receive the imperishable crown of victory!
The 2nd death is death indeed. The 2nd death is estrangement from Christ. The saints may have died the 1st death, BUT having remained faithful until death, they are crowned with life (as promised by the Lord). Having remained faithful, they are protected from the 2nd death by being one with the One who is the "Resurrection and the Life!"
.....OK OK, we can agree that the righteous dead are alive in Christ, BUT what sort of life do they live? Are they aware of us and each other or are they closeted away or self-absorbed; self righteous people indifferent to our sufferings and struggles?
Would a pious Christian, who prayed for all mankind during their life stop praying for us just because they had 'died'. Would they stop offering : "supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks ... for all men" (1Timothy 2:1) just because they weren't physically with us?
Thus the saints, having "died before they died", live now in Christ after their death! ]
Regarding death of the body and life in Christ, Jesus talked about a distinction between physical death and death of the soul or spirit:
"do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" Matthew 10:28.
In addition, St John writes in Revelation: "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” Revelations 2:10-11The 1st death is death of the body; death as understood by the world-- by the world of science, biology and forensic pathology. The 1st death is the stench of the decaying Lazarus 4 days in the tomb (John 11:39). But this is NOT the death to fear. The 1st death cannot hurt the righteous in God. The 1st death is not the final word. It may be inevitable for all, but for the righteous saints of God, it is their crowning glory! It will be when they receive the imperishable crown of victory!
The 2nd death is death indeed. The 2nd death is estrangement from Christ. The saints may have died the 1st death, BUT having remained faithful until death, they are crowned with life (as promised by the Lord). Having remained faithful, they are protected from the 2nd death by being one with the One who is the "Resurrection and the Life!"
What are the Saints doing after they 'die'?
.....OK OK, we can agree that the righteous dead are alive in Christ, BUT what sort of life do they live? Are they aware of us and each other or are they closeted away or self-absorbed; self righteous people indifferent to our sufferings and struggles?
Would a pious Christian, who prayed for all mankind during their life stop praying for us just because they had 'died'. Would they stop offering : "supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks ... for all men" (1Timothy 2:1) just because they weren't physically with us?
Does a prayer-warrior cease being a prayer-warrior just because they depart from this earthly life to a life in Christ?
Well it is pretty clear to me from the scriptures that if the saints are indeed alive in Christ, they must, by extension, be doing what Christ commanded them to do, even after 'death'. In Jesus' own words: "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.............“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me." John 14: 21-24
St John the evangelist and theologian said the same:
St John the evangelist and theologian said the same:
"He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked." 1 John 2:4-6
Jesus Christ did not waffle or vacillate in His teachings about His commandments. He was clear as a bell! When asked: "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22: 36-40).
Jesus Christ did not waffle or vacillate in His teachings about His commandments. He was clear as a bell! When asked: "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbour as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22: 36-40).
Thus Jesus emphatically commands all who 'live in Him' (which includes the living and the dead) to love Him with their whole being, and (in addition to this) they must love their neighbour in a like manner (in no less a way). Thus, the saints, (who now live in Christ after their earthly death), MUST be able to continue to do both. It is NOT FEASIBLE for the saints to be 'in Christ' and yet remain indifferent to their neighbour's needs (living or dead). This would alienate them from Christ if they did.
Thus the saints (those who were with God on earth and remain alive in God after their passing from this world) continue to do God's will (keeping His commandments) even 'after death'.
Turning to the Revelation of St John:
Do the scriptures give any evidence of this?..........why heck yes they do!
The Saints in Heave
n:
n: Turning to the Revelation of St John:
"After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshipped God, saying: “ Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honour and power and might, Be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” And I said to him, “Sir, you know.” So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger any more nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.” Revelation 7:9-17
OK, there's your evidence that the saints are loving God with all their being. They are being nourished and protected by the Lamb (Christ); they are dressed in the white robes of purity and are carrying the branches of victory and DAY AND NIGHT they SERVE HIM.
OK, OK, so in heaven the saints can love God with all their hearts, minds and whole being. BUT, you may ask: "do they care about us here on earth?", "Have we got any evidence that they actually care about our struggles our spiritual 'race'?"
OK, OK, so in heaven the saints can love God with all their hearts, minds and whole being. BUT, you may ask: "do they care about us here on earth?", "Have we got any evidence that they actually care about our struggles our spiritual 'race'?"
To find that evidence we need to look to Hebrews:
"Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us (Heb 12:1) ......... you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel (Heb 12:22-35).
Thus we are urged on by a 'cloud of witnesses', 'just men made perfect', to run the race that is before us. St Paul likens the spiritual struggle in this life as a race for an 'imperishable crown' (1 Corinthians 9: 24-27). The saints are not insensitive to our struggle. They are looking on, but more than looking on, they are actively involved with our struggle in this life, urging us on with their prayers and supplications and intercessions and thanksgiving, because they are in Christ! And to be 'in Christ' they MUST be doing His word! And His word is clear and unequivocal: "Love your God and love your neighbour!......On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets"
So in the final analysis, the 'dead' in Christ are not dead at all, but fully alive. Active and aware and just as concerned (if not more so) for our struggles, because now they are found before the Risen Lord and they see Him in His full Glory- with no earthly or carnal distractions. The Church is ONE..., BUT......for yet a short time (c.f. 1 Peter 1:6), two distinct elements can be distinguished within this One Church:-
(i) the 'Church Triumphant' (as described in Revelations and Hebrews above)
and
(ii) the 'Church Militant' (struggling against evil in this world).
And furthermore, St Paul tells us that the weapon par excellence in this warfare is not chariots or horses (c.f. Psalm 20:6) but prayer! : "praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints" (Ephesians 6: 18)and
(ii) the 'Church Militant' (struggling against evil in this world).
St Paul again states it very clearly that those living in the Church Militant (i.e. those still alive) their spiritual life is one of WARFARE!:
"Put on the whole armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armour of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." (Ephesians 6:10-13).
Summary of the Saints (the Righteous Dead)
If the saints whilst still on earth were urged to pray "with all prayer and supplication.......being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for ALL the saints", how much more would this apply to the saints in the Church Triumphant-- i.e. "the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" Revelation 7:9-17 . The saints in heaven are not insensitive to our pain, they are not indifferent to our struggles; rather they are hyper-acutely and supra-abundantly aware of our needs, and are ever present before the throne of the Lamb offering intercession on our behalf (whether we ask them to or not, OR EVEN, if we want them to do so or not).
The saints (being 'in Christ') can not deny themselves, as St Paul said of Christ (c.f. 2 Timothy 2:13). Being 'in Christ' means being a 'prayer-warrior'- always in intercession and supplication and thanksgiving toward God for the whole of creation (living and dead), before the Great Judgement seat of Christ. The Saint, who is 'in Christ', is in sharp contrast to the 'anti-saint' or the 'unsaintly' who "although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful..... and their foolish hearts were darkened" (Romans 1:18-25). The Saint, who is alive in Christ after his/her death on earth, can do nothing other than be more 'Christ-like' towards us.
Back to the question: "WWJD?"
Well this is all well and good, BUT WWJD?Many will argue again and again; "Well I don't need the saints. I can go straight to Jesus!" Is this a legitimate argument? Is this a reflection of "love thy neighbour" that we are commanded to pursue? Is this what Jesus would do?, OR should I say, is this what Jesus DID!?
It is without a doubt that Jesus did go straight to the Father for prayer and communion. We have many instances where Jesus was found in private prayer to His Father, away from the throng, and away even from His beloved apostles/disciples (Matt 26:39, Mark 14:35, Luke 22:41-42 etc)........... BUT didn't Jesus also consult, commune and fellowship with created beings?
We know he interacted with angles (bodiless created beings) (Luke 22:43, Matthew 4:11, Mark 1:13 etc) who ministered to His needs; and with righteous people such as St John the Forerunner and Baptist, whom He approached to fulfil all righteousness (Matthew 3:15)- thus involving them in His public ministry. Why would Jesus have done that? He didn't need angels or the baptism of John. We know that Jesus and the Father are one (John 10:30), but despite this relationship, Jesus was prepared to consult and interact with created beings, even despite His unique relationship with the Father.......
BUT
by far the most 'scandalous' or 'shocking' revelation of all in the life of Jesus is that Jesus Himself consulted with dead people. Righteous dead people, to be sure, but non-living people that once walked on the earth centuries earlier; who no longer breathed oxygen, nor had biologically active tissues. These people neither ate nor drank; neither slept nor rested; but nevertheless, they remained easily recognisable by others as living people. Jesus was not only happy to associate with them, He was prepared to discuss the most intimate details of His ministry with them (the pinnacle of His sacrifice) and He did so at a time when His Glory (which had hitherto been hidden from the eyes of His disciples and the world at large) was briefly permitted to burst forth!
You may well ask:"When did Jesus ever do such a thing?" ........
The answer is: AT HIS TRANSFIGURATION!
The answer is: AT HIS TRANSFIGURATION!
This is the clincher! The account of the Transfiguration can be found in: Matthew 17: 1-9, Mark 9:2-10 and Luke 9: 28-36. All three accounts describe Jesus taking Peter, James and John up a high mountain, and Jesus being transfigured. Jesus shone with heavenly light, that even His clothing became white as light. Then the most amazing thing happened: two 'non-living' people (one taken up into heaven before his death in 9th Century BC- the Prophet Elijah, and the other dying in 13th Cent BC- Prophet Moses) appeared before the Transfigured Christ as living people.
In all three accounts, we are told that Elijah and Mose
s appeared as recognisable people. They appeared alive, and were both talking with Jesus. These "non-living" men where seen alive and well and conversing with Jesus, the God incarnate. St Peter, in his excitement, believed them to be alive, he wished to make them each a booth (a tent or tabernacle) in which they could rest and shelter for a while. St Peter was in no doubt that these two men, whom he would have never seen before in his life, were alive, and furthermore, he was in no doubt as to their identity.
More specifically, St Luke tells that both saints "appeared in Glory" and spoke with Jesus about his departure (NASB, NIV), or decease (KJV, NKJV). The actual word in Greek being translated here is ἔξοδον:
(definition for ἔξοδος (exodos)
Thus the passage should more correctly read that "[they] spoke of His EXODUS which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem"
In all three accounts, we are told that Elijah and Mose
s appeared as recognisable people. They appeared alive, and were both talking with Jesus. These "non-living" men where seen alive and well and conversing with Jesus, the God incarnate. St Peter, in his excitement, believed them to be alive, he wished to make them each a booth (a tent or tabernacle) in which they could rest and shelter for a while. St Peter was in no doubt that these two men, whom he would have never seen before in his life, were alive, and furthermore, he was in no doubt as to their identity.More specifically, St Luke tells that both saints "appeared in Glory" and spoke with Jesus about his departure (NASB, NIV), or decease (KJV, NKJV). The actual word in Greek being translated here is ἔξοδον:
(definition for ἔξοδος (exodos)
- 1. decease [noun] way out, exodus, hence, journey out, departure; spoken of departure from life, decease.
- 2. departing a way out, exit (hence, English exodus) journey out, departure. )
Thus the passage should more correctly read that "[they] spoke of His EXODUS which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem"
Thus these dead (humanly speaking) righteous men- AKA saints- appeared alive and glorified before the transfigured Jesus. They were not passive spirits, but were capable of discussing with Jesus His exodus- His death and, no doubt, His Resurrection from the dead. Jesus spoke with "dead" men about the most important aspect of His whole ministry- His death in Jerusalem. He discusses the New Passover-- the fulfilment of all passovers-- with two "non living" guys. Jesus had no problem consulting with, discussing with and fellowshiping with the saints. If we are to ask: "WWJD regarding the saints?" we would have to answer: "He had no problem consulting with them!"
Jesus talked with the saints as if they were alive! Jesus fellowshiped with the saints even when He clearly had demonstrated His divinity by His transfiguration. Jesus was not ashamed of the saints. Jesus did not shun the saints. Jesus did not say: "I don't need the saints, I'll go straight to God the Father". If you want to do as Jesus did; if you want to follow "WWJD" principles, then you must (MUST!) include the saints in your fellowship (whether they be on this earth or departed this life). To ignore the saints that have gone before us is to NOT follow 'WWJD' principles.
Jesus talked with the saints as if they were alive! Jesus fellowshiped with the saints even when He clearly had demonstrated His divinity by His transfiguration. Jesus was not ashamed of the saints. Jesus did not shun the saints. Jesus did not say: "I don't need the saints, I'll go straight to God the Father". If you want to do as Jesus did; if you want to follow "WWJD" principles, then you must (MUST!) include the saints in your fellowship (whether they be on this earth or departed this life). To ignore the saints that have gone before us is to NOT follow 'WWJD' principles.
For the LORD loves justice, And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. (Psalm 37:28)
Psalm 50:5
“Gather My saints together to Me,Those who have made a covenant with Me by sacrifice.”
Psalm 52:9
I will praise You forever, Because You have done it; And in the presence of Your saints I will wait on Your name, for it is good.
Psalm 89:5
And the heavens will praise Your wonders, O LORD; Your faithfulness also in the assembly of the saints.
Psalm 89:7
God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints,And to be held in reverence by all those around Him.
Psalm 97:10
You who love the LORD, hate evil!He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psalm 116:15
Precious in the sight of the LORDIs the death of His saints.
Psalm 132:9
Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness,And let Your saints shout for joy.
Psalm 145:10
All Your works shall praise You, O LORD,And Your saints shall bless You.
Psalm 149:5
Let the saints be joyful in glory;Let them sing aloud on their beds.
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. (Psalm 37:28)
Psalm 50:5
“Gather My saints together to Me,Those who have made a covenant with Me by sacrifice.”
Psalm 52:9
I will praise You forever, Because You have done it; And in the presence of Your saints I will wait on Your name, for it is good.
Psalm 89:5
And the heavens will praise Your wonders, O LORD; Your faithfulness also in the assembly of the saints.
Psalm 89:7
God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints,And to be held in reverence by all those around Him.
Psalm 97:10
You who love the LORD, hate evil!He preserves the souls of His saints; He delivers them out of the hand of the wicked.
Psalm 116:15
Precious in the sight of the LORDIs the death of His saints.
Psalm 132:9
Let Your priests be clothed with righteousness,And let Your saints shout for joy.
Psalm 145:10
All Your works shall praise You, O LORD,And Your saints shall bless You.
Psalm 149:5
Let the saints be joyful in glory;Let them sing aloud on their beds.
SO DO WHAT JESUS DID AND HONOUR HIS SAINTS! That is WWJD!
Calling to remembrance our all-holy, immaculate, most blessed, and glorious Lady Theotokos and ever-Virgin Mary with all the Saints, let us entrust ourselves and each other, and all our life unto Christ our God.
AMEN
AMEN
